A post-mortem would be interesting, but I wouldnt be quick to track down a coon that just took a 147 HST and strolled off. A .32 H&R Magnum round would be excellent alternative, and I think a wadcutter bullet in that chambering would also be an excellent choice. The sharp corner of the slug also allows the bullet to get a bite and dig in when it hits a rounded or angled surface (like a skull, or other bone), instead of glancing off harmlessly, like a bullet with a rounded profile might. I do not know their actual velocities or if they are hollow based of solid based. I load my own 155 grain wadcutter from RimRock into .357 cases. A while back I got asked by a local gun shop guy why I carried wadcutters. One inescapable fact about the wadcutter is that its profile makes it more difficult to load into the chambers of a revolver. I really can shoot wadcutters and be taken seriously? Pressure is all. That being said, the bullseye shooters in our area use mainly 185 JHP bullets by montana gold pushed by 231 powder to about 800 fps. lead flat point; 158-gr. My reloads in other guns may very just a bit, but not much. mixed brass will result in different amounts of crimp being applied, thus diff amounts of bullet pull. If we were sitting together around a campfire, wed probably keep each other entertained into the wee hours with animated discussions about sectional densities, stories of hunting bullets that brought down game, or the best carry loads for our gats. You need the barrel length to get all the velocity the extra pressure promises. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! I will keep on keeping on, and having fun! Bravo, Mike! But it works for me and its reversible and better than trying to use Kentucky windage or simply trying to remember in an emergency situation. For years, the working load was a soft lead, cast or swaged 148-gr. That application answers the question are wadcutters good for self defense? The surprising answer to that question is yes. . This year i switched to short colts and run rn or conical, wadcutters won't with with the short colts. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. From my .38spl experience, the hollow base wadcutter bullet easily gave excellent accuracy, no doubt about it. Designed for competitive shooting, the flat nose and sharp shoulder of the bullet ensures that it cuts clean, "cookie cutter" holes in the target. The choice of bullet for the .357 Magnum cartridge varied during its development. I shoot regularly at the range, in addition to the classes I take. Although I can shoot Speers 135 gr Short barrel loads in .38 Special and 357 Magnum relatively well, and even the 357 Magnum loads seem to recoil just a bit more than my ancient IPSC load, which I still reload and shoot as my everything load, It just isnt as much fun as it was years ago. This puts more weight in the front of the bullet, allowing a heavier bullet with no reduction in case capacity. When we looked at the most likely jacketed hollowpoint options in .38 Special and .357 Magnum, none of them fared well when we measured them against these priorities for our friend. Im just not sure that doing so makes any real difference, and of course, liability. When a hollow-point hunting bullet strikes a soft target, the pressure created in the pit forces the material (usually lead) around the inside edge to expand outwards, increasing the axial diameter of the projectile as it passes through.This process is commonly referred to as mushrooming, because the resulting shape, a widened, rounded nose on top of a cylindrical base, typically resembles a . I think the real reason the bullseye shooters liked the bullet is you could get less recoil( due to less weight) and still get flatter trajectories than the 230 for their 50 yard targets. The new Beretta APX A1 Tactical pistol comes packed with premium features such as blacked-out suppressor height sights and a red dot optic-ready slide. Friend Mas Ayoob points to such notables as Duncan MacPherson, Dr. Gary Roberts, and Chuck Haggard as examples. However, the wadcutter can also do things that they cant. Hope to never have to use these reloads for their intended purpose, but I feel they will not let me down . Id consider myself well-armed with a 155 grain wadcutter at 950-1050. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. Plus, these modern wonder bullets can only be made on an industrial scale, by a major manufacturer. Reloading your own is a great way to learn about your ammo, and develop loads that work for your practice, and to find out what your upper level of recoil tolerance is. In my 3 SP101, it is only about an inch low at about 7 yards. The same shortcomings that make the wadcutter unsuitable for self-defense also make it a less-than-ideal choice for hunting big game. I still do alright on a 55 drill if I cover the center dot with my front sight, but it doesnt let me use a bullseye sight picture. Wadcutters, semi wadcutters, and the like arent as sexy, and sure, they dont exhibit the same theoretical damage to soft tissue in an ideal situation as a high tech hollow point. Mike. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. It shoots well (sized .359) in every .38/.357 I have. Elmer Keith was the designer. A bullet that looks like an overpenetrator in gelatin might turn out to be just fine in the real world, where it has to defeat a non-homogenous, clothed target. SWC .38s are not bad for self defense. Thanks for your efforts! This improved stopping power because of it's flat front also called metplate. My LCR is the .357 magnum version and I recently downgraded my carry load to Underwoods 158gr +P LSWC rounds as UWs 125 gr +P JHP were just too much for me. They offer a full-diameter cutting shoulder, and yet they penetrate as well as anything else out there. Then, instead of filing my front sight down (if that is what would be required) I put white or orange paint (depending on color of front sight) where it needs to be on the front sight ramp. bac1023 Registered Joined Sep 26, 2004 Yes, thats a good observation, indeed. I carried wadcutter reloads for many years before deciding that I should go to factory defensive ammunition to avoid the safety issues and possible legal risk noted above. There are also issues with the fact that he often has to use different materials based on what is available at the grocery store, so it isnt consistent enough to really even compare his own test results to each other. Our shooters level of strength, skill and experience didnt currently allow them to control these powerful loads sufficiently enough to rely on them for defensive duty (including the .38+Ps). Both gun's have 7 1/2 inch barrels. Thats not a problem for many RevolverGuys, but it can be limiting for others. All my other guns are all steel and +p rated. Relief? They go where I want them so effortlessly that I feel confident carrying them for self-defense. Never underestimate shot placement, wise words for sure. CONS : Slow bullet velocity. Velocity, type of clothing worn, whether hitting meat or bone, etc. Actually, the hardest part of any shooting is figuring out what needs to happen between the ears, which is why I check into this forum occasionally. Get the bullet to the heart, to the lungs, or into the brain (through the face, generally) and you will generally win another day on planet Earth. As you can see in the photo below, there is a dramatic difference in the size and shape of the holes that wadcutters make in a paper target compared to a regular, round-nosed, full metal jacket round. Those were hunting when I was a kid, and as you might imagine, were almost always head shots on a treed raccoon. But, if you want the benefits of extra pressure you need extra barrel length. at. Though full wadcutter bullets are often unreliable in semi-automatic pistols, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. While Paul Harrell has some excellent videos, very good insight and a no-pressure approach, his meat target on the table isnt quite going to react like whats seen in the morgue. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Mike Wood is a bonafide revolver nut, a handgun, shotgun, and patrol rifle-certified law enforcement firearms instructor, and the author of Newhall Shooting: A Tactical Analysis, the definitive study of the infamous, 1970 California Highway Patrol shootout in Newhall, California. If you got a good hit, maybe the bullet just acted like FMJ and slipped through. Thank you Sir! I see semi wad cutter, flat nose, round nose, etc. Deployed military should use stateside address. My learning and shooting philosophy is: one. Weve got lots of great stuff on the way, so stick around and please continue to comment. Carry what you want, but be dam good with all of them. The taper may be straight or curved. Wadcutters are an anomaly. Contest open to U.S. residents only. but the way i shoot, i don't think it'll help me out . Save my name and email to use for future comments. Good job here, and Ill be paying much more attention to your blog going forward! Major sigh. Talk about a tough critter. Wadcutters were originally designed for target shooting. You have entered an incorrect email address! 38 , 9mm 45 acp all work if you are willing to practice with them. The three projectiles penetrated 15.0, 16.0 and 16.5 inches with minimal expansion (.405, .401, and .386, respectively), easily besting a host of 90, 110, 125 and 130 grain projectiles that were fired alongside it, which penetrated around 9 inches, on average; 4. An inch at 7 for the 3, so what about at 25? Winchester used soft swaged bullets and they clocked a bit faster than the Remington or Federal loads. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Sure u can carry a slightly smaller gun but is that worth the trade off when they either dont penetrate deep enough or move fast enough for reliable expansion? No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: American Handgunner Magazine, GOM May/June 2023, P.O. In the FBIs estimation, a bullet that penetrates less than 12 inches of calibrated gelatin risks being unable to reach the vitals, and is unfit as a police duty round.(2). Im probably the last person to notice, but .22 rimfire ammunition has become awfully expensive, assuming you can find it at all. Higher quality bullets, even lead like Oregon Trail, show very consistent results between RN, WC and SWC designs. Armed citizens may come to different conclusions about the requirement to penetrate 12 in gelatin (including after intermediate barriers), but the greater law enforcement community has accepted this standard for police duty ammunition, so thats what the manufacturers are building; 3. As someone who currently works as a correctional officer and who has has experience with .38 special wadcutter rounds shot out of older model smith and wessons. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Theres no free lunch in ballisticsespecially in .38 Special snubby ballistics. Plating is much thinner and won't withstand much higher velocities than plain (soft) lead, but will cut down on airborne lead particles and smoke upon firing, making it better indoor range ammo. I have one pistol that will not reliably feed LSWC's of any make and have to use round nose or lrnfp. I can personally say that they are indeed great rounds to use despite what other experts say. I've done quite a bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets & powders. In actual shootings, the agency found that the bullet usually stayed within the target. Light weight bullets or heavy? This has led some people to discount the 12 standard as arbitrary. I have learned a lot from RevoverGuy. The bullet nerds were trying to be helpful, but they didnt do a very good job of reading the situation and tailoring their advice for our friend. Ill now be on the lookout for an opportunity to use the phrase,handful of violent despair and fire breathing dragon. Thats just poetic! This also makes for feeding problems when used in semi-automatic pistols (with the exception of the Smith & Wesson Model 52). Also, I recently watched the Paul Harrel video on why he doesnt like Hyper (boutique and defense-specific) ammo. Not sure if its poor shot placement (probably), dense muscles and bones (them not me), or if the HST rounds are opening up too fast and not getting adequate penetration maybe some or all of the above. The most powerful and capable bullet does you no good if you cant connect with it, eh? If questioned about the non-regulation ammunition, they simply planned to claim the wadcutters were left in the guns accidentally, after training. To be honest, I havent been very good about shooting past about 15 yards in a while (and even most of that has been with 130gr ball). And I had a great deal of fun in the process. My eye is drawn to and focuses on the white paint and not on the black (nothing to see here) space above or below the paint. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Not all SWC are created equal. Throated, reamed, gutted (threw away cast ignition parts) and put on a nice set of grips. 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