However, it can also be used for larger game such as deer and elk. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. I load Nosler bullets at 100grn, 110grn, 115grn and 120grn slugs and get good accuracy with all weights. This accuracy situtation with the Bob has me reconsidering doing this. Smaller calibers like the 6mm usually boast higher ballistic coefficients and sectional densities while shooting comparably weighted bullets. Properly -tailored handloads will group under .75 inch. The .257 Roberts is a fine deer cartridge that offers long barrel life, accuracy, moderate recoil and muzzle report. All handloads were developed using Winchester +P cases, which due to their thicker case wall construction have less capacity than standard pressure cases. 4.9. MV (22 inch barrel). Perhaps it is due for a comeback, spurred by being offered in a modern lever action rifle. While neck sizing cases can increase accuracy, since I consider the .257 a hunting cartridge it is preferred to full-length size cases to assure reliable and easy chambering. But for most hunters, ballistics arent the only consideration. (22 inch barrel). Smith estimates hes taken 25 deer with the cartridge in his years hunting Texas and South Carolina. The wildcat became the .25 Roberts, honoring its lead developer, Maj. Ned H. Roberts, a well-known outdoor writer and experimenter. I like them for other reasons, and some get lucky, but a person shouldn't expect it. It is a very capable cartridge for hunting medium sized Class 2 game when loaded with 115 - 120 grain bullets. That's still less than the typical 60,000 to 65,000 psi of comparable modern rifle cartridges. Since the Roberts has been around for quite a while, once-fired brass Free shipping for many products! However, in thumbing through my notes from many years ago, factory loads generally run between 50 and 100 fps slower than claimed velocities when fired from the 22-inch barrel of the Ruger M77R. Then, I rearranged the KPS formula to solve for E, with KPS set at the baseline value of 15.0 and (SD x A) = .0112 for the 100 grain .243 bullet. at 2,599 fps. From the trajectory table, I recorded muzzle energy and energy at 100 yards and other relevant distances. I've had 3 different Ruger 77's in 257 Roberts and all have shot really well. the handloading route. Manage Settings Handloaders can load the full gamut of bullet weights enjoyed by early factory ammunition. That old gun shot lights out. In The 243 Roberts is also a good choice for long range shooting. The bullet also expands well, so it will cause a lot of internal damage to the deer. Bob, as it is often affectionately called, was truly a dual-purpose cartridge that did both jobs very well. Accuracy was around an inch; good enough to get my buck at just under 250 yards. There is no shortage of .25-caliber Recently, the renewed . OConnor and Warren Page also had high praise for the .257 Roberts, but The .257 Roberts is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges. fps and zero the rifle for 200 yards, bullet drop at 300 yards is only My Son recently bought a Kimber 84M Select Classic .257 Roberts that has been sub MOA with every load we've tried. Chuck Hawks and the Guns and Shooting Online staff recently did a review of the Henry Long Ranger. Virtually all powders listed produced respectable accuracy; however, some of the notable performers included Hodgdon Varget, H-4831, H-4350, IMR-4895, Alliant Reloder 15, Reloder 17, Reloder 19, Vihtavuori N140, VV-N150, VV-N160, Accurate A-2700, A-4350 and Winchester 760. This was 1346 ft. lbs. The current SAAMI spec for the .257 Roberts Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) is 54,000 psi. Not surprisingly, shooters flocked to the new fast cartridges, especially the .243 Winchester. Bill Ruger's extraordinary No. I also noted the zero distance of the load. Load #3 features a 120 grain bullet, the heaviest hunting bullet loaded in the Roberts. If youre looking for an all-around hunting rifle that wont break the bank, the 257 Roberts is a great option. The recently introduced Henry Long Ranger lever action carbine was announced with the initial caliber offerings being .223 Remington, .243 Winchester and .308 Winchester, with more calibers promised in the future. It was freaky accurate with Winchester 117g round nose loads. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. lbs., depending on the load in question. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. Ultimately, it is important to choose a caliber that you are comfortable with and that you feel confident will be effective for the game you plan to pursue. Benchmark and H-335 were neck and neck, with IMR-4895 following suit. The Mossberg 500 Pump Action Shotgun is one of the most popular home defense shotguns on the market. It is truly a hunting rifle i.e. simply because of the Roberts conservative case volume. Not 3 moa with handloads, for sure. It did not take long for custom riflemakers to begin building .25 Roberts rifles. Have two in the house now. Magnum primers are not needed concept. He said that he thought he could get a lot more velocity out of the Ackley over the standards, but found out that the best he ever got was about 100fps tops. (20 inch barrel), ME 1943 ft. Joseph VonBenedikt is with Joel Hodgdon to talk about the improved accuracy and long-range potential of the already reliable Core-Lokt ammo line. One account of the .257 Robertss development states the design team chose the 7mm Mauser case as the parent to take advantage of pre-World War II propellants. I did some estimates of recoil with the heavy hunting loads I have featured. Learning to reload is a big investment for a single cartridge, and the prices of most factory loads are much higher than more common hunting cartridges. That said, I will simply refer to the cartridge and rifles chambered for it as ".257 Roberts" hereafter. For the record, every Savage Model 110 Timberline 6.5 Creedmoor Rifle: Full Review, Ruger MAX-9 9mm Micro-Sized High-Capacity Pistol: Review, Springfield Armory SA-35 Pistol: Rebirth of the Browning P-35 Hi-Power, Savage Impulse Straight-Pull Rifle: Full Review, .458 Winchester Magnum History: The Complete Story, 6.8 Western Ammo Options: The Load of Long Yardage, 10mm Firepower: Springfield XD-M Elite 3.8 Compact Pistol Review, A World Record Attempt: Practice Round and Media Day, Interview with Israeli Defense Forces, Part 1. This isn't your grandpa's muzzleloading system. My example is a Federal Premium .243 Winchester load with a 100 grain soft point spitzer bullet. While this is all well and good, the .257 Roberts deserves to be . Taurus has redesigned this sporting pistol for performance. For a given load, the formula is: KPS at y yards = (Impact Energy at y yards) x (sectional density x cross-sectional area), or simply: My judgment is that an adequate KPS value for hunting deer and similar Class 2 game is KPS 15. lbs., MPBR = 265 yards (zero at 225 yards). If you really get in a The maximum loads in the accompanying data are almost all +P pressures. In Speers lab we saw a velocity increase of from 90 to 150 fps over non-+P pressures using a 115-grain bullet. (Ret.) The hottest .243 Winchester factory load I was able to identify for the article The .243 Winchester: Its Capabilities as a Deer Cartridge specs out as follows. : 2.535" Powder: 41.0 gr 43.7 gr Vel. Noted gun and cartridge experimenter - Dr. Franklin Mann - was indeed a very important part of the .25-caliber concept. I once owned a custom Mexican Mauser in 257 Roberts that was. Nosler offers a box of 20 cartridges for $93. Manchester, Vermont, I found a brochure at the counter highlighting the rifle with extra detailing (hence the XTR designation) in a number of Not the best choice for longer range work but it kills like a lightning strike inside of 250 yards. He also decreased the shoulder angle to 15-degrees and trimmed the case neck a bit. lbs., MPBR = 275 yards (Zero at 235 yards). The point is that KPS and Effective Killing Range can be very useful tools for shooters who want to evaluate the killing performance of different cartridges and loads. latter powder had not been used for quite a while, it was included. His choice in brass was the 7mm Mauser necked down to .25 caliber. It is clear that the .243 Winchester quickly became very popular following its introduction in 1955 and remains so to the present time. If nothing else, it would have saved a lot of later confusion. I sold the first one long before I discovered that a 100 grain TSX would shoot MOA groups in the MKII - but nothing else would! Despite the .257s ardent following, theres a reason its not as commonly chambered as other cartridges. # 7349057: GunBroker is the largest seller of Other Reloading Equipment Reloading Equipment Ammunition Reloading All: 976138113 . Our Sitemap. can still be had at good prices at gun shows. case capacity of roughly 53.0 grains of water, many modern powders work If we take the Roberts with a 100-grain bullet at 3,000 Subscriber Services. After that, all cases are checked for length, and if The .257 isnt just loved by industry insiders, either. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. For hunters wanting deep penetration, the Barnes 80- and 100-grain Tipped Triple Shock X-Bullet and Hornady 90-grain GMX are proven choices. The 257 Roberts+P is essentially the same thing as the 25-06 Remington. Ackley, the modified 257 Roberts was likely the best improved round . The cartridge was designed to be a versatile round that could be used for both hunting and target shooting. It features a straight-grained walnut The latest one, a MKII, will do this with a 100 gr Partition and 45 grains of IMR 4350; action bedded and barrel floated. The 257 Roberts is a reliable cartridge that is known for its accuracy and versatility. As a result, I could not find .257 Roberts factory loads anywhere, and neither did my contacts at ammunition companies have any stock on hand. from a 20 inch barrel. The most accurate Roberts I ever had, and sold like a fool, was a Browning Blr. ), 200 yard KPS = 19.4 (Energy = 1483 ft. They have the same bullet diameter, case length, and overall length. Remington cataloged the .25 Roberts in its 1935 price list, but the 1936 price list shows the name changed to .257 Remington-Roberts. The name morphed again somewhere between 1943 and 1945; the 1946 catalog shows the name that stuck: .257 Roberts. It's not a screamer and it's not a slowpoke. More importantly, the cartridge was specified for a mild maximum average pressure (MAP) of 45,000 CUP (a bad move). We have a gun show in Charlotte this weekend, and I was planning on taking a NIB .243 Ruger M77 to the show in hopes of trading it on a .257 Roberts. Those who reflect on the decline of the .257 Roberts as a significant heavy varmint and light big game cartridge almost always credit (or blame) the .243 Winchester. Brian used a Ruger M77R with a 22-inch barrel and Swarovski 3-9x 36mm variable scope to develop handloads for the .257 Roberts. guns.Elmer Keith was another .257 Roberts supporter of sorts. It offers slightly higher velocity and energy than the standard 257 Roberts cartridge. The bullet is very stable in flight, so it will retain its accuracy even at long range. The hottest commercial .243 Winchester load I can find is quoted as driving a 100 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3120 f.p.s. Remington, Winchester and others offer unprimed cases for the .257 Roberts. it ain't the cartridge. (22 inch bbl. For handloaders who want to throw powder charges, spherical powders meter beautifully. The 257 Roberts is a classic cartridge that has been used for hunting medium-sized game for decades, while the 6.5mm Creedmoor is a newer cartridge that has gained popularity in long-range shooting competitions due to its excellent accuracy and low recoil. A short time later, Winchester chambered the Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference. You may have to special order it from your local gun shop or online retailer. Browning/USRAC also did a limited run of the Model 70 XTR in .257 Roberts. Scopes, guns, boots and other tactical stuff in-between. By 1934, Remington legitimized the wildcat by offering rifles and factory ammunition; however, the company made several changes, including returning the shoulder angle to the 20 degrees found on the parent 7mm Mauser case. 5.0. Also have a 257 AI, watch your cases with that RL 17 load you are using. Vortexs Ryan Muckenhirn explained that the .257 Roberts has suffered from the no-mans land that is quarter-bore cartridges. You can get a box of the Federal load mentioned above for $100. Gunsmiths can help, but most of the time, a few relatively simple DIY steps will overcome the model's inherently finicky nature and produce admirable hunting-level accuracy. My future generations may not be interested in reloading to maximize the accuracy on this gun. they do not come in around 2.223 inches, they are trimmed back to meet The does a great job on deer - it holds together very well at the high velocities possible with the AI case and I have found it to be very accurate. In the velocity department, the .257 Roberts is really two different cartridges. to me several months later and was used successfully on antelope the That is well beyond the MPBR of the load. Anyone who disagrees with the baseline KPS I used here may change the analysis to use any cartridge, load and ballistic parameters they feel accurately reflect effective killing power and range, for deer or other game. For this project, I explored many I did not have the opportunity to try Modern .25-caliber 100-grain hunting bullets are a great choice. Its not a small game cartridge and its not a dangerous game cartridge. Its a bullet diameter bracketed on either side by wildly more successful bullet diameters, he said on a recent episode of the Vortex podcast. The Roberts .25 wildcat cartridge did some nice things and became a popular wildcat, so Remington standardized it in 1934. from a 24 inch barrel. Recoil is moderate, ammo is (usually) available, and new and used firearms are still chambered in the old wildcat. some bullets grouped better than others, and most loads were accurate Other commercial riflemakers picked up the Roberts, and it became a successful dual-purpose cartridge for varmints and big game up to large deer and black bear. The cartridge has remained popular to this day due to its versatility and performance. The action is extremely strong. Assuming a field ready weight (rifle, scope, sling and cartridge load) of 8.5 pounds, the recoil of the Long Ranger rifle would fall between 9.0 and 10.0 ft. Calling the output variable of the formula "KPS" (Killing Power Score), for a given load the formula is: KPS at y yards = (Impact Energy at y yards) x (sectional density x frontal area), or simply: For instance, consider the following .30-30 Winchester factory load: Hornady 150 gr. Walther's new Performance Duty Pistol is ready for both concealed carry and conventional service situations. To summarize, the .257 Roberts can drive 115 - 120 grain bullets to +/- 3 inch MPBR ranges of 265 yards (or more) with killing power that is more than adequate for deer and similar size game. of Jordan, Montana. Barrel rifling diameter, from which calibers derive their designations, is 0.250 in or 6.35 mm. Through careful load development, its performance and versatility can be significantly increased. addition, Winchester and Hornady still turn out factory ammunition. When it comes to sizing, I prepare all cases as if I was going To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Hodgdon Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. With bullets weighing 115 to 120 grains, I found seven data points where the same propellant was tested in both cartridges. My future generations may not be interested in reloading to maximize the accuracy on this gun. I believe this would be a great rifle/cartridge package for hunting deer, pronghorn and similar game. The .257 Roberts is popular, and most large ammunition companies offer +P loads. A World Record Attempt and everyone is out at the range shooting and practicing. lbs. Handloading the Roberts unleashes its full potential. Its simply too much fun to shoot! produces about 17 ft.-lbs. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301, Swift A-Frame Revolver and Pistol Bullets. Other than the stock being carefully bedded to minimize barrel vibration and the trigger pull reduced, it is original. ", "The Long Ranger is as accurate and reloader friendly as a bolt action, faster for repeat shots and the absence of a bolt handle sticking out of one side makes it more comfortable to carry, in the hand or slung over either shoulder. ), 275 yd. I started with the baseline KPS for the .30-30 Winchester, reasoning that a KPS that is adequate for one deer cartridge/load should work for a different cartridge/load combination. Next, I developed a trajectory table for the load using the ShootersCalculator trajectory calculator. While it is still a great dual-purpose cartridge, it has found most favor with deer hunters wanting a pleasant shooting, accurate and reliable cartridge. rifle. This comparability can be applied not only to different loads for a particular cartridge, but also can be extended to comparisons of different cartridges. Accurate description. The .257 Roberts (right) is based on a necked down 7x57 Mauser case (left). JSP, MV 2920 f.p.s. Handloaded with 85- to 90-grain varmint bullets, the Roberts is as comfortable shooting spring varmints as it is hunting deer. The Roberts combines that solid ballistic performance with feather-light recoil. ), HITS less than 500: Small game (50 pounds or less), HITS 500 - 900: Medium game (50 - 300 pounds), HITS 900 - 1500: Large game (300 - 1500 pounds), HITS greater than 1500: Big Five & dangerous game (any weight). This is a standard 100 grain .243 Winchester factory load at a MV of 2960 f.p.s. The .257 Roberts cartridge does not deserve to be shoved into obscurity. Interlock RN, MV 2350 f.p.s. The .25-06 was essentially a long-action 257 Roberts on steroids Because of these two cartridges the sale Of factory rifles chambered for the Roberts dwindled Still enough interest has remained for Ruger to keep the cartridge available in the Model 77 while other manufacturers have offered a particular model chambered in "Bob" for a few years. Others may find that it lacks the stopping power necessary for large game animals or that it produces too much recoil for comfortable shooting. to that of the .30-40 Krag. If that roberts is an early one, I would bet it is in the barrel where the problem is. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. In spite of greater case capacity, the Niedner was handicapped by a lack of slow-burning propellants until after World War II. My hope is one of these will be the .257 Roberts. Back in the 1980s, a press release showed that Other discontinued firearms from Ruger and Winchester can still be found new in the box, but those are getting rarer. Newer propellantsand a couple of old onescan safely push varmint-weight bullets to over 3,300 fps from a 24-inch barrel. The downrange data are needed to do hunting capability index calculations. I feel this even more strongly after making a detailed examination of the performance and capabilities of the cartridge. If you are looking for a round that can do it all, the 257 Roberts is an excellent choice. I chose 20 inches, because the Henry Long Ranger rifle has a 20 inch barrel. cartridge in both the Model 54 and Model 70 rifles. These recoil figures can be adjusted with heavier or lighter bullets, of course, but when using the most common factory loads, the .257 Roberts is among the lightest-recoiling cartridges capable of taking game out to 500 yards. My dad eats, sleeps, and poops deer hunting, Zellers said. casually mentioned the Roberts was on the way out. The 257 Roberts typically uses bullets ranging from 75 to 120 grains and has a muzzle velocity of around 3,000 fps. It may not be as (All three of the .257 Roberts loads have KPS = 15 ranges that are longer than their MPBR distances.). 5.0. lbs., MPBR = 300 yards (Zero at 255 yards). load of 41.0 grains under a 100-grain bullet, and I tried it with a JohnChilds # 13687559 03/25/19. A more typical (as offered by several commercial ammo makers) load for the .243 features a 100 grain bullet at 2920 f.p.s. Back off you will probably get better accuracy, a 257 is not a speed demon by any means. Custom Mossberg 500 at the Range and Live Turkey!. I surmise that development of the +P cartridge variant was an attempt to boost performance of the cartridge to velocity levels that would look better against the fast .243s. When working with the .257 Roberts and my Model 70, I choose to go With advancements in powder technology, including extruded and spherical, handloaders can achieve greater velocities than previously. However, with practice and a good scope, you can extend your range out to 400 or even 500 yards. .257 Roberts Ballistics Fi. Winchester still kept an interest in the .257 Roberts by introducing a Both Jack Its my go-to round, he said. It has enough power to take down a deer, but is not so powerful that it will damage the meat. The .257 Roberts is a great all-around deer cartridge, so its too bad that its so difficult and/or expensive to get your hands on one. Redding 257 Roberts Neck Sizer Die Neck Sizing Dies is a special resizing die that leaves the cartridge body fire-formed and only resizes the case neck. Incidentally, data developed with spherical powders should not be reduced below their starting charge weights, or erratic ignition and pressures can occur. of Hercules Powder Company. Note that the EKR of the .243 Win. All Hodgdon 4350, IMR-4831, Alliant Reloder 19 and IMR-7828 rounded out the Seller feedback (13,970) 5***j (736) - Feedback left . My grandfather built me a .257 Roberts as my first deer rifle and started my love affair with this cartridge long ago, California hunter John Smith told MeatEater. These new policies allow hunters to use cartridges like the .450 Bushmaster, .45-70 Govt., and .350 Legend, which have limited range Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. Cause a lot of internal damage to the present time with feather-light recoil bullet at 2920 f.p.s, is in... 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